I was excited when I found out that Generac got back into the portable generator business. They sold their portable generator line to Briggs and Stratton a few years ago but they are back to producing portable generators again. I always liked the Generac portables. They were quality products at reasonable prices. I've owned a Generac 4000EXL for 12 years. It is a great little generator and the only one I knew of at the time with an OHVI engine. My experience with the 4000EXL is the reason I purchased the XP8000E.I ordered my XP8000E over the Internet. Due to the bad ice storm in the Northeast, none of the local dealers had them in stock. I paid $50 less than Lowe's sells it for and that included free liftgate delivery, which was nice since this unit weighs 200lb. In retrospect, the ability to return it to Lowe's would have been worth the extra $50.
The XP8000E was well packed. The packaging is ingenious and if you follow the instructions, removal is really easy. On the down side, following the instructions means you are cutting all four corners of the box so if you have to return it, you have no box. The generator is mounted on top of a heavy cardboard support. It suspends the generator just enough so you can slip the wheels on without having to lift it at all. Once the wheels are on, the generator rolls easily out of the now flattened box. The only thing I didn't like about the old red Generac generators is that the wheels were under the motor end and the handles were on the alternator end. The alternator is the heavier side of a generator so you were lifting the heavy alternator end whenever you moved it around. I was pleased to see that the new models are designed so that the weight is over the wheels rather than the handles. This makes moving the XP8000E almost as easy as the 4000EXL, even though it weighs twice as much.
The next step was to fill the generator with oil. The XP8000E Operator manual specified 3 different oil viscosities depending on ambient temperature. There was no oil that could be used for all temperature ranges. This is a nuisance because in New England, temperatures can vary widely and I didn't want to have to change the oil 4 times per year (for each season). Conversely, the engine manual for this generator said 5W-30 full synthetic oil could be used from -20°F to over 100°F. Since this conflicted with the operator manual, I called Generac for clarification. They told me 5W-30 synthetic could be used at any temperature and that is what they use at the factory on their test generators. I picked up some MobilOne 5W-30 and proceeded. The first thing I noticed when filling the generator with oil is that the lower support (a U channel) is upside down from how it was on my old 4000EXL. The U is facing up. The support is also directly below the oil fill, the oil drain and the oil filter. What this means is that it will be nearly impossible to change the oil without getting some in the channel. With the old models, it would just run off and providing you had a strategically placed pan underneath, there would be no mess. With the new design, the channel fills with oil. Since the engine is directly over it, you can't get access to clean the channel so the oil will slowly drip out over the next few days. I'm not sure what the engineers at Generac were thinking but this is a very bad design. Next I gassed up the generator. When I removed the gas cap, I discovered there was a mesh filter cup in the fill tube. This interesting way of filtering the gas makes it difficult and slow filling the generator. The filter cup prevents you from inserting the fill nozzle of the gas can more than 2 inches into the opening. The filter also restricts the flow so the combination makes filling the generator very slow. Pour too quickly and you will spill gasoline everywhere. Considering this generator has a 9 gallon gas tank, this is a significant inconvenience and another design flaw.
I fired up the generator after filling it with oil and gas. It started right up but I noticed a few more design flaws. Generac went to great lengths to put all the controls on one panel. This makes controlling the generator easy because you don't have to walk around the generator to reach the various controls. Unfortunately, this arrangement is poorly implemented. The choke, which was easy and smooth to operate on the older models is now controlled by a cable. The choke positions are vague at best. Also, if you are not very gentle with the choke lever, you will pull it out too far and then it jams. If you don't pull it out far enough however, the generator won't start. It is near impossible to put the generator in the full choke position without jamming it. Then you must wiggle the lever to get it aligned so you can push it back into its socket. Also, the on/off switch and start button, which were separate on the older designs are combined into a single rocker switch on this model. Left is off, center is on and right starts the generator. It takes very little pressure to move the switch to any of the 3 positions. I could easily see someone inadvertently pressing start when trying to turn off the generator, thus grinding the starter mechanism. You have been warned so be careful! Last, the fuel shutoff valve is extended through the front panel via a plastic knob/shaft assembly. It is difficult to turn and I'm betting the plastic shaft will crack from stress over time. So that is at least two and possibly three more design flaws.
That said, as long as you get the choke to the proper position, the generator starts easily and it is as quiet as the 4000EXL Pretty impressive considering the engine is twice the size. Next I checked the voltage and frequency. The frequency was 63.5 Hz with no load, which is excessively high. Most motors will not like this. My well pump specifically states that the frequency must be no more than plus or minus 1 Hz. Frequency in a generator is directly related to engine speed. Higher engine speed equals higher frequency. I applied a 6000W load to the generator and adjusted the engine speed to obtain a frequency to 60Hz. I called a friend who also bought this model and told him what I found. He checked his generator and also found the frequency to be 63.5 Hz. In conversation, he mentioned that his generator was running poorly out of the box. I told him to check to see that the foam element was oiled. If not, this can cause the generator to run lean. When he examined the filter, he found the foam element was not installed properly and was actually folded in half so it wasn't completely covering the paper element. He suggested I check mine, since he found it difficult to install properly due to the placement of the filter housing. I checked mine and sure enough, mine was folded over too. So far, I was not too impressed with the quality control. I ran the generator for about a half hour with various loads. Thankfully, it ran great without flinching.
I shut down the generator and stored it in the garage. A few days later, I went into the garage and noticed a strong gasoline odor. Since the generator was the only new addition, I went over to see if that was the source. It was. I examined the unit and found gas was leaking near the gas shutoff valve. I checked the tightness of the hose clamp on the gas line. It was properly tightened. Closer examination revealed the gas was coming from the valve body. There are two screws on the face of the valve. I thought perhaps they may be loose. I took a small Phillips screwdriver to snug them up. One of the screws was very loose and turned freely. It had obviously been stripped during assembly. I'm disappointed at this point but no big deal. It looks easy to replace so I'll just email Generac on Monday for a replacement part. Hopefully we won't have a storm before then.
I got a reply Monday with the names of 2 service dealers in my area. I called Generac because transporting a 200 lb generator to a dealer 30 minutes away would be a major pain in the back. Plus, I don't have a pickup and the generator was leaking gas. I had drained the tank over the weekend but I was unable to get out every last drop, so a 30 minute drive with gas leaking in my SUV was not an option. I explained this to the rep on the phone. She told me I could not replace the part myself because that would void the warranty. Excuse me? The manual tells me I must adjust the valve clearance after the first 25 hours of use and every 100 hours after that. I am qualified to adjust valve clearance but I can't replace a simple valve? Please!!! I pressed the issue with the customer service rep. She put me on hold. When she came back on the line, she suggested that I put a towel under the generator to catch the gas and bring it to a dealer for repair. My brain's internal filtering system shut down at this point as I asked her, "You expect me to drive 30 minutes with a generator leaking gas onto a towel in my car?" I was persistent and finally she agreed to order me a part. She questioned me about exactly what part I needed and I told her the fuel shutoff valve that screws into the gas tank. She put the order in and told me I'd have it the next day. I was happy and thanked her. The next day, nothing arrived. I got the part 2 days later. Not great but still not bad. I opened the box and prepared to install the part but it was the wrong one. She sent me the valve from the GP8000 instead of the one for the XP8000E. It would not work in my generator. Working in the service industry, I know how difficult it is to explain what is wrong over the phone. A picture is worth a thousand words. With that in mind, I took a picture of the valve she sent and labeled it "incorrect part". I also took a picture of the valve in my generator and labeled it "required part". I emailed both pictures to the rep. She apologized and placed a second order. Again, it did not ship as promised but arrived the following Monday. I opened the box and again they sent the wrong part. This time they sent the plastic control knob for the fuel shutoff but not the actual valve. I was amazed at this point. I called Generac and asked to speak with a manager. I was told the customer service manager would call me back but she never did. I got desperate at this point and called the two service dealers previously emailed to me by Generac. The first dealer could not look up my model number. He said it wasn't in his system. I called the second dealer and he is trying to help me. I just hope I can get this resolved, otherwise I have a $1300 paperweight. The dealer told me that he has seen several of these valves leaking because the screws were stripped during assembly at the factory.
My biggest concern is that I have requested 3 times that a manager from Generac call me but none has ever called. Based on my experience, I'd recommend that you run far away from the Generac brand. If you need support you will be left out in the cold. If I ever get this resolved, I'll post an update.
Update: I finally got a call from the customer service manager at Generac. She initially insisted that the correct part was sent. I asked her if she looked at the pictures I emailed. She said yes, but everyone she spoke with told her that was the correct part. I suggested that perhaps one of them should walk down to production and look at an actual generator. Obviously, they have the correct part when they assemble the unit. She told me she would call her vendor and get to the bottom of this. She told me the generators were not built at their facility but shipped already assembled. I'm not sure what that means. I always thought Generac builds their generators in their own plant but I got the distinct impression that this is no longer true. She did call me back the next day and I got the correct part 2 days later. Total time from my first call to receiving the correct part was about 2 weeks. If anyone ever need the fuel shutoff for the XP series of generator, the part number is 0G85920101.
Needless to say, I am very unimpressed with Generac's quality control and customer service. While the XP8000E offers good bank for the buck, I have serious reservations about recommending it. My 4000EXL has lasted over 10 years. I'll be curious to see how the 8000XP fares long term.
This would have easily have gotten 4 stars if it weren't for the quality and customer service issues I experienced. To get 5 stars, they would also have to fix some obvious design flaws like the poor choke and the U channel engine support that collects oil. A better designed start switch would be nice too. Perhaps the key type I've seen on other units... -Joe
Update 4/20/2009
We had our first power outage since I got the new generator online. It performed flawlessly. My well pump, which challenged my old generator was no problem for the XP8000E. The voltage and frequency stayed solid under load. The voltage never dropped below 112V, even with 2 refrigerators, the oil furnace, some lights and the well pump running. The frequency stayed within 0.4Hz. I think that is pretty impressive for a portable generator.
Update 4/28/2009
I received a very nice call from the director of customer support at Generac. We discussed the concerns I had with her customer support department. She assured me they have been addressed. She also told me that she had discussed of my suggestions with her engineering department. I'll be interested to see if Generac addresses these issues but I was impressed that they read the reviews on Amazon and took the time to call me personally.
OPERATION
It's very simple to operate. You could easily show a child. It was easy to fill. If you accidentally spill a little fuel it doesn't end up over the control panel or the muffler. There is easily accessible first-stage fuel filter in the filling area. Very nice feature. It has an hour meter which is very handy. I like the options for plugging items in. They give you a very nice 25-foot extension cord for the 30 Amp circuit. VERY nice.
PORTABILITY
It is very portable...easy to roll and maneuver. It is heavy. Two good-sized male adults or three people to load and unload from a pickup truck. One person can easily lift one side to maneuver over a curb.
Easy to assemble. All you have to do is add the wheels, add oil, add fuel. The fold-down handles are VERY solid and just a really nice feature. I rested my garage door on the frame so I could have the muffler outside.
NOISE
You are not going to have long conversations around it. It's louder than my 650 but it's supposed to be. I did not feel it was too loud but I'm sure someone makes one that is more quiet.
FUEL EFFICIENCY
We ran a 1,500 watt heater, a TV/satellite receiver, two notebook computers, a wireless Ethernet router, a satellite modem, a 300 watt light, a 150 watt light, a 250 watt infrared lamp, a livestock heated water bucket for the miniature donkeys and a heated water dish and heated blanket for the barn cat and our large GE fridge. Plus we used a few other items on occasion but everything above was on all the time. I filled the tank as full as I could...over-filling it according to their instructions so it probably has a little more than eight gallons. We ran it for 14.5 hours and it was still running when we turned it off for the night.
I've always liked the Generac name and have had a good experience with them. They give you everything you need for your first maintenance. They give you a paper funnel. So if you buy this while the power is out you can get it up and running quickly.
Negatives: Noise, the oil level "dipstick"
One more negative. Changing the battery. The engineer who thought this little nightmare up should be flogged. The Torx head bolts are on so tight I went through two Torx head bits...and I mean broke...before I could get the item off to access the battery. It should have been accessible from the frame. Really? Feel the need to hide the battery, did ya? I still love the generator and would buy it again but if I ever meet the engineer who made the decision to hide the battery there's going to be a fightTo start, in my updated review I would bump this to 4 stars if ratings editing were possible.
Like another reviewer here, I am the proud owner of a 10+ year old Generac 4000xl. That model ran great the entire time I've had it, though is not quite powerful enough to start my well pump without struggling. I've wanted a bigger unit for some time and last December's ice storm here gave me a good reason, so I went with a name I already knew and trusted. I also decided to go with the XP over the GP for the "True Power" technology, though I'm having difficulty determining how that actually works as nobody at Generac Customer Support can explain it to me other than "it cleans up the power". Anyways, I bought my unit at Lowes as they have it for a much better price that Northern Tools. the model number for Lowes is 5708 (vs 5606 from Northern Tools) though they are the same machine from the same assembly line. Everything out of the box was easy. Nice packaging, easy setup, etc...as others have already stated. So I was hopeful. Before starting I picked up some synthetic 5W30, got everything ready to go. I then checked the air filter to make sure my prefilter was lined up correctly per suggestions here and found that there was no prefilter. I called Generac about this and they stated there is not supposed to be one, which is a little confusing as others here have stated that their units came with a prefilter. So anyways, I started the unit and it seemed to surge up and down for a few seconds until I adjusted the choke. Surge went away and I pushed the choke all the way in and she was up and running fine. I let her run for about 15 min then put a small load on it...everything seemed fine. Took off the small load and went to power up my 3/4 HP well pump (I believe it draws about 4500W to start...well within this Genset's ability) and the gen started the pump but for about 10 seconds after the start, the engine on the genset surged up and down...almost as if it were starved for fuel. "Well this aint good" I thought. It evened out finally but I'm sure it was NOT good for my well pump...certainly would not be good for any electronics that may have been attached. So I reproduced the problem several more times and called Generac. Their customer support, while polite, had no useful advice other than "take it to a dealer." I called my local dealer who will look at it even though I bought it at Lowes (the local dealer doesn't sell XPs). He stated it sounds like it needs some carb adjusting. So that's where I'm at....I dropped $1350 on a brand new generator and right out of the box it runs poorly. Generacs's response..."we have your money, we can't help you."
The only other idea I've come up with is due partially to what another reviewer stated....the air filter precleaner. Since mine did not come with one, and the lack of a precleaner could cause the engine to run lean, I may try installing one ($0.55 at the local dealer) to see if that helps out. The Rep at Generac did state that there should not be one (even though other folks have them in their units and the instruction manuals clearly state that your prefilter should be cleaned) but I'm a little leery regarding Generac Customer Support's level of knowledge.
I'm giving this 2 stars for now because I'm hopeful that it may be a simple carb adjustment and nothing more. I expect a Generac GN engine to run flawlessly, not run like a cheap Chinese knockoff. Fortunately there is a parts and labor warranty for this unit and other than my time trailering this thing to the store and back, it should end up working out okay. I should have been able to give this 5 stars as I did with my 4000XL many moons ago, but Generac's extremely weak customer support and the fact that this should have been adjusted correctly out of the box has made that impossible. If my local dealer needs to send any charges my way, I will certainly be taking it up with Generac Management as this unit should not need ANY adjustment out of the box. I have already shot them an email asking management to contact me about this issue. I'm not too hopeful for a response.
UPDATE 9/2/09
I picked up a prefilter from the local dealer and it made no difference as far as how the engine would surge under a heavy load. I spoke with the company that installed my well pump and they informed me that starting watts for the pump will run around 4000W well within this Generator's means. Also, never received a reply from Generac Customer Support. Looks like I'm stuck taking it in for an adjustment at a local service center.
Update 9/4/09
I received a call from the rep at Lowes who sold me this unit. We talked about how poorly it was performing and he thought it was likely due to the carb setting at the factory. Since you can't adjust the carb yourself anymore (thanks for nothing, EPA) there is not much that could be done other than returning it or bringing it to a service center and HOPE that Generac would cover the adjustment. He therefore offered me a swap for another unit he had in stock. The new unit works great. No more hunting under load. It also sounds better while running and the voltage is a steady 120/240. As an aside, I opened up the air filter and a prefilter is in fact installed...this after the Generac Rep insisted "the instruction manual is wrong, it should not have a prefilter." Whatever, no harm done outside the loss of some time and 2 quarts of Synthetic oil. If I could update the rating I would bump it to a 4. I would give it 5 stars if it weren't for Generac Customer Support's lack of knowledge.I've noticed that some poeple have complained about some of the "features" as if they were design flaws. I'd just like to give my perspective.
The unit is constructed out of steel (and perhaps cast aluminum). The wheels are semi-solid, meaning no air, meaning no flats. If anyone has tried to push a 200+ lb object with a flat tire, they know how hard it is. The tires do develop flat spots, but the flat spots are hardly a hinderance to rolling. I'd much rather have a little "thump thump" than have to spend 10 minutes inflating a flat tire.
The OHVI engine is pressure lubed with a filter and a pressure cut-off switch (that could be bypassed in an "emergency" if you were sure that the pressure switch was the problem). This means that the engine parts are fully lubricated and the oil stays cleaner, longer for longer runs between changes. The fuel valve is a little sticky, but a little bit of silicone spray makes it a little easier to turn. I would sure hate for it to be so loose that it vibrates closed during use, so the tight turning is a positive to me.
The choke does have a faint click into the middle position. You can also just estimate it by placing a finger behind the knob. Really it's just a choke, and while there is a "full open" and a "full closed" anything in between is just that, "in between." The convenience of it being on the front panel outweighs any percieved "need" to feel it "click" into a halfway position. Perhaps a little cable lube (like a teflon dry lube for bike chains) would help make it smoother, but mine was just fine the way it was.
The batteries do die rather quickly, I blame the cheap battery charger that lets the user overcharge the battery and boil out the acid (yes they are sealed, but they do have vents, and they will boil). A replacement battery is available from Generac and third parties. I'd recommend invesing in a more sophisticated charger than the 1/2 amp trickle charger included.
The engine starts so easily that it starts every time on the first pull, even when sitting for a few days.
The gas tank is rugged metal. The fill port does have a screen. I am not sure why some people feel the need to complain about having to fill it slowly because 1) it's nice to know theres not crud in the gas tank and 2) the screen is completely removable, so if you don't want it, take it out. I suspect that review was just looking for ways to demerit a fine quality machine.
The handles are rugged and the handle locking mechanism is nicely designed and well placed on top of the hinge.
The unit is quieter than I expected, but as loud as a lawn mower. Some fault the mufflers in such units in general, however these engines run at 3600 rpms, and with all that metal spinning around, are going to make a racket. To compare, pop the hood on your automobile and have someone race the engine in neutral while standing to the side. I dare say that the generator is quieter. For a truly quiet, long lasting unit, I'd look into a 4 pole water cooled diesel unit, but you'll also be paying for it. So far the unit has prooved to be easy to start, tollerably quiet, and easy on gas.I have had mine 2 years and the only issue was the battery went. I didn't buy another battery i run jumpers to my motorcycle battery to start.That works out good for me because my bike battery is always fully charged.I use my generator to back up my 3000 watt solar system I have a 2500 gallon water holding tank which i fill every 3 weeks for livestock with a 220 pump and it has no issues doing that. My knit pick complaint would be the manual choke I would prefer automatic choke. But thats one reason the price is so good.
Gary in Oregon
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